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ELI5: What ltd. mean?
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What does it mean to be a limited company?
Top Comment: A limited company is a legal entity like a person, but it's not a person. The limited bit means that any liability is limited to within the entity itself. Being an actual entity means it can legally own things etc, but should the company come into financial difficulty, or be sued, the liability is "limited" to the assets of the company and does not pass on to the directors or shareholders. Depending on which country you are in, the laws vary on any exceptions to this, but normally if negligence or illegal activity can be proven then liability can extend outside the boundaries of the limited entity.
I need info on LTD
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Idk why but I'm addicted to this LTD crap. I know someone in it and I'd love to know what they are actually preaching and selling. I know kts a training/mentorship program but does anyone know what they are actually spewing? Any links? Feel free to pm me thr link.
Top Comment:
I was involved in LTD/Amway for 7 years. Long story short - religious, motivational scam artists.
They make most of their money from training, tool sales and conferences. I'm here to talk if someone needs a hand - it set out family back in more ways than one.
My experience with LTD/Amway.
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Recently a friend of mine had been talking about her business, and when I asked about it she would only say something along the lines of "I was recently introduced to a couple who was able to grow their passive income and retire in their 30's, and they are mentoring me in growing a cash asset opportunity" and wouldn't really go into more detail, so I dropped it. Eventually we talked about it more and she told me she could talk to this couple and we could work together on this business, and I had red flags right away because every question I had was answered with very vague answers. Eventually I had a zoom meeting with her trainer or whatever, and I was told how great of an opportunity this is, how you can have a second income doing very little work, etc, but he still really wouldn't tell me anything. Instead I was given a website to visit, and an e-book to read (Chop Wood Carry Water.) The following week was another zoom meeting to discuss the website and the book, and still no answers, but he assured me all my questions would be answered at this meeting in a couple weeks. I go to this meeting and finally I learn that it's LTD and Amway, and the guys on stage talk about how it's not about how many customers you have but "quality of the customers you get" and how one of the guys only has 2 customers a month. They also go over the points, and how if you bring more people in you can earn 6 figures and go on all these trips and stuff. I play along till after the meeting because everyone there was some kind of banker, or engineer, or otherwise wealthy profession, and I knew all I needed to know. I texted my friend to tell her I wasn't going to go any further and told her my concerns, and she got a bit condescending I'm her replies back. I also texted the trainer and told him I'm out, and he also got condescending, replying "the slideshow at the info session went over all that, it's not a pyramid scheme because the people below can make more than the people at the top." I feel bad for people who fall into this trap, but experiencing it first hand I see how once these people drink the kool-aid, no amount of research or critical thinking is going to pull them out, and its sad.
Top Comment:
don't waste your time when they wouldn't tell you the name of the company in the first 2 minutes of the conversation. this is a giant red flag already and could've saved you a lot of time
Why I left Amway/LTD
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This post can also be found in r/MLMRecovery
Lately I have been seeing more Amway posts than normal on reddit, it seems they've been more active than usual. Now seems like a good time to post my story since quitting 8 months ago.
My participation in Amway and its tool scam counterpart LTD (Leadership Team Development) lasted from Jan. 2019- Mar. 2020. I didn't fully quit until later in the summer, but I will describe more about that.
I'm going to change the names of the people in this story to remain anonymous.
Upline= Brad
Fiance= Rebecca
I am a guy in my late 20s who lives in the US, I served in the military and now work full time at a large retail chain. I never thought of myself as the type to get scammed, which is why I ignored the warnings of Rebecca and my mom.
Brad (complete stranger) came into my store to do a little bit of shopping. I helped him find what he was looking for, and we chatted for a few minutes. A little bit later in our conversation he asks if I was open to extra income, and that he himself is a veteran who does marketing with other military members and veterans. It seemed reasonable so we exchanged contact information. I can't say I was necessarily actively looking for another income source, but I thought it wouldn't hurt. Brad is excellent at presenting Amway in a positive and non-threatening way, so nothing really seemed out of the ordinary. MLMs and pyramid schemes were a foreign concept to me before meeting him.
My former direct upline, Brad is a Platinum in Amway. I'm not going to bother describing what that means, simply he has a fairly large group (~100) of cult followers, I mean "business owners" underneath him; enough that he hosts his own weekly meetings.
Amway's products are of average quality with steep prices. Rebecca and I spent way too much money every month on stuff we didn't even need. On average, I alone spent about $300 just with amway products, plus $120 for LTD subscriptions totaling about $450 to $500 a month.
As part of Brad's group we were regularly drilled on having to spend most of our money on that crap. Brad would often say we shouldn't be consuming any food that is not from our business until 5pm, otherwise we would be "cheating" on our business.
One time at a meeting he literally said he didn't care if Amway sold hula hoops, since to him it's not about selling products, rather the "opportunity" The items that amway sells is just a way to perpetuate its scam. There is no real accountability whether its distributors actually sell items or fake customer receipts. Recruitment is a focus more than anything else, it was about buying stuff from your own business and finding others to do the same.
Info Sessions (Weekly Meetings): During my amway stint I was working 10 to 11 hour days at my job often getting up at 4am to be at work. The drive to these meetings is one hour one way. The info session wouldn't start until 8pm (more like 8:30pm) and normally ended at midnight. I was then exhausted by the time I had to get back up for work.
Streaming in live via zoom was not allowed if you lived within a couple hours.
Brad intentionally rented out a smaller room than what we had people for to give the impression to guests that this is a "hot" place to be. People standing in the back was always a thing. If you were a guy, and you got there early to grab a seat, you would still end up having to give it up to a female (even if she was late) if no other seats were open. 1950s gender roles like this are common throughout all of LTD.
He would spend the first 30 to 40 minutes explaining how terrible jobs are and how great Amway is and how it's not a scam, and that it's actually an inverted triangle (I still don't understand that). He would always say that he doesn't get paid unless his downline succeeds too. He never mentioned the thousands of dollars per month LTD pays his family for his contributions. Too many times would he make crazy income claims like a 2-5 year plan working part time to "quit your job", yet if we didn't succeed it was because we're not doing enough.
The final hour of these info sessions was for IBOs only, we would spend all night doing recognition for things like contacting and recruiting new people, or spending all our cash on amway. It really was just a big waste of an evening. I started thinking that this might actually be a cult, it was just too weird.
Contacting people for amway was by far one of the worst things about all this. I made a fool of myself calling old friends from years back. Most facebook messages I sent were ignored, and Rebecca was unwilling to use her list of contacts to help build my business; looking back I don't blame her.
I even resorted to using the app Bumble to get prospects. Within a month or so I recruited Pete (a coworker), but he became such an Amway Kool aid drinker that by the time I quit he was insufferable to be around. Thankfully we don't work at the same place anymore. I would go out each day after work to grocery stores and places like Walmart or Target to bring up business to strangers that look like "sharp and ambitious individuals that I would want to be friends with".
I have no clue what that's supposed to mean, how could I tell just by looks?
I even dreaded getting off work because I would have to go do that for hours. We were trained to avoid mentioning Amway at all costs; instead we should say we work with Best Buy and Apple. Many strangers would tell me it's a scam or they tried amway before. To get potential prospects to his meetings, Brad often told me to lie to them that we don't know when the next info session will be. Essentially, we should use the fear of missing out tactic to motivate people. I really just felt like a whore for Amway. There was such an internal struggle within me about all this that created so much anxiety. Looking back now all this contacting was just absurd, it's not normal. People with any sense in their head don't walk around for hours at grocery stores talking to strangers about some "business opportunity".
It seems like the conferences and subscriptions to LTD is how Amway Diamonds made a lot of their money. This is where a lot of the weird cult stuff would take place. The diamonds would spend hours late into the night yammering on about their rags to riches story and how anyone that wants it can be filthy rich. It seems like everyone there just worshiped the ground these rich people walked on. On Sunday morning the blatantly Christian church service would happen; the leader of the conference would go on and on all morning about how God wants us to have an amway business so we can be part of the "bigger picture". The lines between business and religion were so blurry that at times I had to ask myself if I was at church or a business seminar. As an atheist myself it was incredibly difficult to accept all this as anything other than religious indoctrination to excuse leeching off people's money, but I stuck around for a little longer because maybe there was something in all that garbage that would help me grow my income.
The last meeting I ever attended was in late February (right before the pandemic) at this meeting one of Brad's "downline leaders" pretty much said to all of us in the room that we weren't working hard enough to allow Brad's wife to retire from her work at home job.
That night was the catalyst for me to really start taking an objective look at my current life situation. It seemed best that I distance myself from the negative that I had allowed to thrive in my life. For the most part I went off the radar with almost no contact with anyone in Amway
I hadn't quit yet, not until Brad wanted me to attend a large conference of Summer 2020 during the pandemic in Texas. I was not about to risk my health or Rebecca's so that some fat Diamond could get a little bit richer. Brad and his IBOs were behaving irresponsibly during the pandemic, not what I think real professionals would do.
Their poor behavior included large social gatherings potentially spreading the plague, and their general bad attitude to recognizing that the health of the general public is more important than their attempts to become millionaires. I knew it was my responsibility to do the right thing and be part of the solution and not the problem.
I blocked Brad's number and all other amway numbers in my phone. I ceased contact completely; I contacted LTD to cancel my subscriptions. My decision was made that we were quitting, but it wasn't easy mentally. Since then I have seen a few of Brad's downline at my work (shopping? no probably contacting), they don't bother to wear masks even though it's a state mandate where I live. The few times they have been at my store we would chat briefly, but I always had this weird feeling they were trying to get me to say what I have been up to.
I could never recommend anyone to get involved in Amway or any other MLM, I suppose it was an expensive learning experience, but Rebecca and I have moved on from this chapter and our lives are better now than before. I would love to answer any questions.
Top Comment: At least you weren't in it for a real long time. Somewhere out there is a book written by a man who became an Emerald and was still only making 30,000 a year. You nailed it when you mentioned that the upline makes all the money on the motivational products and gatherings. The man who wrote the book said that also and Amway goons made it so his book isn't in print. His story is a horror story! I can't remember the name of the book but somebody else here will know. I had to read it online. My husband and I were in it for about 5 years twenty years ago. Getting out was freedom. The catalyst for getting out for me was the upline thinking they had a right to counsel us about major life decisions.
Opinions on ESP-LTD brand for basses?
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Looking at buying a 5 string from them but I don’t know much about this brand and their quality.
Top Comment: I've had an LTD F4-E for ages, used for lower tunings with the 35" scale. Great well-made bass, super-fast neck. Electronics are a bit generic-sounding but that varies greatly by which model you're looking at.
Is the ESP LTD a solid mid-range guitar? The only thing i’m iffy about is the licensed floyd
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I played an m-100 in my local shop and loved the way it felt. I’m also thinking of getting a jackson x series warrior
Top Comment: They’re not bad. Maybe look at the next model up. Jackson’s are good bang for the buck also.
LTD prices gone up?
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Last week I bought an LTD EC100 with Evertune which was 1333 eur( I price matched it and got it for 1280) and this week the same guitar is 1400 eur?WTF?
Top Comment: Yeah for ESP's budget line, LTD prices are getting fucking ridiculous...
LTD over Squier?
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So, I have a Squier Classic Vibe Tele and I was looking for some ESP guitars, I found many intresting ones but they were all LTD. Is it worth it picking an LTD instead of a squier?
Top Comment: LTD are to ESP what Squier are to Fender. A generally more affordable range that mimics the more expensive range. As for whether it is worth picking an LTD over a Squier, well that depends on what you want from your guitar. The LTDs generally have more contemporary features and are geared towards heavier styles of music, not exclusively, but that's their wheel house. The Squiers are typically more traditional (especially the classic vibe range) although they do have a contemporary range as well, albeit not as good as the LTDs in my opinion. In short: Traditional style, vintage inspired guitar? Squier Modern style, contemporary spec'd guitar? LTD
Esp v Ltd — is there a big difference?
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Looking at a Metallica guitar. They have it in LTD and as ESP (which obviously has huge price tag ) has anyone compared the sound ? Like is it HUGE difference in tone ? I realize the finish and craftsmanship in esp guitars is another level. Worth the extra $$$?!
Top Comment: Korean built LTDs are very well made and tend to have quality brand name hardware and components, you get a lot of value for the money.
LTD/Amway Tool scam explained by one of the higher up's.
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I was a sapphire (one level under emerald) in business for years. One of the biggest misconception I see in the comments are about how the emeralds and diamonds in amway aren't millionaires. No, I can assure you from going to their houses and hanging out with them they are legit millionaires. The tool's is their main source of income as in the books and audio's they send to people. They make 60% of the 100 Dollar LTD media pack every single month just at the emerald position. I never truly found out diamond percentage but some people told me it was 75%. The audio's are literally just a download off their system that cost $9.00 that they could technically give away if they wanted. So basically the average diamond has over 1,000 people in their downline. If you do the math that's 60-75k a MONTH in tool sales they get outside of even the Amway money which is really good once you hit emerald level too. I'm not trying to defend them, but to say they aren't rich is just wrong. On top of that the conference tickets that they sell are $120 dollars a piece. And the weekly info sessions are $10 dollars. The LTD system makes them WAY more money then the Amway part of things. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Top Comment:
I’m not sure when you were in, but tickets have been running $175 / $195 per person function, and the LTD app VIP costs $250 per month. So crazy.
One time our upline wanted to have a certain at the time Emerald couple come in and talk at our team meeting and the up upline laughed and said there was no way we would be able to afford their fee. They were charging $2500, plus travel / hotel to speak for an evening.